How does the QSC/MO, or, can the QSC/Mo certificate holder make any claims at all on their certification regarding the heat treatment of unqualified source material?

Example 1: A mill produces plate material that per the material specification is required to be normalized. The material is purchased in accordance with NCA-3855.5 without any audit or verification that the mill follows any procedure (pure unqualified source material, no "alternatively" as used in NCA-3855.5(a)(3)). How does the QSC/MO, or, can the QSC/Mo certificate holder make any claims at all on their certification to the end user regarding the heat treatment of unqualified source material?

Example 2: A mill produces A/SA-193 Grade B7 material (quenched and tempered AISI 4140, minimum tempering temperature required by the A/SA-193 spec. is 1100 F). Again, the material is purchased in accordance with NCA-3855.5 without any audit or verification that the mill follows any procedure (pure unqualified source material, no "alternatively" as used in NCA-3855.5(a)(3)). How does the QSC/MO, or, can the QSC/Mo certificate holder make any claims at all on their certification to the end user regarding the heat treatment of unqualified source material?

Per NCA-3800, each piece of starting material material would be chemically tested, and, have all other requirements of the material specification on each piece of starting material tested (i.e., strength, macro, charpy, etc.), except those performed during the pouring and heat treatment per NCA-3855.5.

Now its time to make piece parts for an order requiring ASME Certifications. How does the QSC/MO, or, can the QSC/Mo certificate holder make any claims at all on their certification regarding the heat treatment of unqualified source material?

Nucthat,

Please refer to the wording of NCA-3855.5. and try to follow these points:

1) Your material is from an UNQUALIFIED source.

2) But it comes with certification of heat analysis, melting practice, heat treatment condition, and any other property that you have specified in your PO (maybe tensile strength, impacts, etc)

3) You can not accept the certification of anything, cause the source is unqualified.

4) Now ASME comes along and tells you:
You can accept (only) certification of HEAT ANALYSIS; MELTING AND HT CONDITION, if you verify the heat analysis by a chemical analysis per piece. All other tests must be repeated on each piece in your case.

Note that the product analysis is made TO VERIFY the heat analysis. So you will not test against the SA-spec, but against the MTR that comes with the material

does this ring the bell now?
DK

Nutchat,

If you have an access on ASME Interpretation, look for Interpretation III-1-07-43 and III-1-07-04 and you will find this interesting.

Good luuck,

leem817

leem817, DK,
I do not have access to the Interps., and, although they are use full to some extent they are not part of The Code (per ASME Audit Teams and maybe in the preface of The Code).

Let me pose my question in a different manner.

Suppose for the sake of this discussion I am providing ASME Section III SA-193 Gr. B7 bolting over 2" nominal diameter from 1-bar of unqualified source material. The CMTR from the unqualified producing mill notes ASTM A-434 Class BC and obnly indicates the material was heat treated.
I follow NCA-3855.5 and perform a chemical test on the bar, I perform the strength test (Tens/Yld/Elong etc.) on the bar, I perform an E381 Macro on the bar, evaluate all of the results and they meet A-434 and SA-193 Grade B7.
I then perform any necessary NDE and Charpy testing required by The Code, make bolts and prepare my QSC/MO Certification (I am an MO/QSC Holder and this is all in the Scope of my ASME accreditation).

Do I (how do I) address the heat treatment required by SA-193 for Grade B7 on my Certification?

I could have sighted similar questions for SA-479 Ty. 304 from mill supplied A-276 Ty. 304, or, SA-182 F304 from forging quality AISI 304, or, yada-yada.

Was the answer of Dirk:
4) Now ASME comes along and tells you:
You can accept (only) certification of HEAT ANALYSIS; MELTING AND HT CONDITION

Not clear enogh?

I know what The Code says about accepting (only) the certification of HEAT ANALYSIS; MELTING AND HT CONDITION, from the mill.

My question is simply:

Do I (how do I) address the heat treatment required by SA-193 for Grade B7 ON MY CERTIFICATION TO MY CUSTOMER AS THE MO? Or,
What statement about any heat treat required by the Material Specification can I put ON MY CERTIFICATION TO MY CUSTOMER AS THE MO?

Thanks in advance.
Nucthat1

Nucthat,

I would recommend to certify the actual condition. If your company did the HT, you certify the required information as per the material spec, and if somebody else did it, you attach his certification as an identified attachment.

DK