I am using a third party service for performing NDE on my ASME jobs. This third party has established procedures and is carrying out NDE in varuious ASME shops. As per T150(a) A procedure demonstration shall be performed to the satisfaction of the INspector this applies for all NDE (rt,ut,mt,pt).

MY QUERY IS IF I AM HIRING A THIRD PARTY WHO HAS ALREADY ESTABLISHED AND DEMONSTRATED THEIR PROCEDURES, DO I NEED TO DEMONSTRATE THE SAME IN MY WORKSHOP?
IF YES WHERE CAN I FIND SPECIFIC REQUIREMENT SAYING EACH WORKSHOP HAS TO DEMONSTRATE THE PROCEDURE, EVENTHOUGH IT HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED AT SOME OTHER WORKS. As to me T150(a) and Appendix 12 in Sec V are not saying about the third party services.


Regards
Prashant

Prashant,
The reason for demonstrating NDE procedures is to ensure the Inspector that the personnel performing the NDE are competent and that the procedure they are using complies with the code.
If he or his company have already witnessed the procedures being used competently in one workshop there is no reason why it would need to be done again.
The decision rests with your inspector.
Hope that helps,
Regards,
BB

I would generate a letter that this NDE Procedure and Revision Number have been demonstrated to the satisfacationm of the AUthorized Inspector and get his signature together with QC Manager signature.


leem817

Prashant,

MY QUERY IS IF I AM HIRING A THIRD PARTY WHO HAS ALREADY ESTABLISHED AND DEMONSTRATED THEIR PROCEDURES, DO I NEED TO DEMONSTRATE THE SAME IN MY WORKSHOP? Yes

IF YES WHERE CAN I FIND SPECIFIC REQUIREMENT SAYING EACH WORKSHOP HAS TO DEMONSTRATE THE PROCEDURE, EVENTHOUGH IT HAS BEEN DEMONSTRATED AT SOME OTHER WORKS. As to me T150(a) and Appendix 12 in Sec V are not saying about the third party services.

You will find the requirements above from the construction Code e.g. Section VIII Division 1. para. U-2(b) which requires stamp holder has the responsibility of complying with all of the applicable requirements of the Code and including by his subcontractor.

Best regards,

Surachai.

You need to messure the light intensity in your shop and make a little map of it. Further you need to borrow/buy a densitometer and Color contrast penetrant.

Read Section V, T-234, T-262.1 and T676.3

Prashant,
T-150 (c) requires a written NDE procedure as well as a practical demonstration of the procedure.
Just get your third party inspection company to have the procedures signed and stamped by the AI and you should be fine.
Regards,
BB

What, what???
You, the Manufacturer, have to qualify the procedure and demonstrate to your AI that it does comply with Art T-150. And certify you have demonstrated to your AI. Of course you may demonstrate it at your subcontractor's shop or yours, as you prefer and if the AI accepts. But it is your responsibility.

mauro

Mauro,
With all due respect I disagree with you and stand by my earlier statement.
If the NDE/NDT is conducted by the Manufacturers employees then you are correct.
But it is not, it is conducted by an independant third party.
T-120 states "In this Code Section, "Code User" is an organization conducting non destructive examinations to the requirements of this section." - The independant third party is the "Code User" not the Manufacturer.
T-130 states "It is the responsibility of the Code User to ensure that the examination equipment being used conforms to the requirements of this Code Section." - Not the Manufacturer but the Code User.

So the written NDE/NDT procedures can be submitted to the AI and he can witness a demonstration on any job (lets say Company A)and if he feels they are acceptable he can sign and stamp them and then they are approved documents.
The NDE/NDT company then goes to perform similar inspections for company B.
If it is the same AI he is hardly going to ask for another demonstration when he has already seen and approved it. If it is another AI from the same company he will probably accept his colleagues approval as well. If it is another AI from a totally different company it would be his prerogative whether he accepts it or not.
The NDE/NDT company gives a copy of the approved procedures to Company A and Company B for their MDRs/PDBs (just the same as a subcontractor provides approved WPSs)
This then complies with T-150 (c).

IMHO the code does not seem to reference third party companies, they only seem to deal with the Manufacturers employees.
T-150 (b) requires the Manufacturer to establisn NDE procedures. That is fine if he has employees performing MT or PT, but how is a piping / tanking / bridge building company going to establish a radiographic or ultrasonic procedure ?

Regards,
BB

Thanks for the "due respect". With the same respect I see that you are making a common error: Not considering the jerarky among the ASME Code. It is the construction Code which rules and other referenced Codes apply in the terms the construction Code requires.
Please read Sect. VIII Div.1 Appx. 8 Para. 8.1(c).
The Manufacturer has to certify the procedure is in accordance with Sect.V. As in the Code philosophy it is the Manufacturer who overall responsibility including his subsuppliers. There is no third party. Your statement <The independant third party is the "Code User" not the Manufacturer> is.... let me say humbly: "little bit wrong".

Mauro,
Thank you for your response.
I am not sure about your last statement about the code user, I have only quoted straight out of the code.
T-120 states "In this Code Section, "Code User" is an organization conducting non destructive examinations to the requirements of this section." - The independant third party is the "Code User" not the Manufacturer.
Who is "conducting" the NDE ? It is the third party, not the manufacturer.
Regards,
BB

NDE examination is responsibility of the manufacturer. The manufacturer may subcontract services by an appointment to qualified personnel whose qualification has been verified by the manufacturer to be in accordance with the requirements of the Code. The NDE procedure shall be qualified .......but I am repeating what I did already write. Sorry I am not able to convince you. If you are a stampholder you only have to ask your AI. And convince ASME Team Leader at your next Joint Review. Good luck.
mauro

I am curious, what does the term "jerarky" mean? I have never heard that term before.

The AI can call for a demonstration and even requalification any time he/she deems it to be necessary. You could classify this demonstration as a "hold point" for those who may choose to disagree with the Code words.....in the end....I am sure the answer will be revealed at the ASME Joint Review, if not beforehand.

_________________
A question properly stated is a question half solved.

The Code of construction requires application of referenced Codes totally or in part.
Sect.V (but the same applies to Sect.II and IX), is referenced by Sect.VIII/Div.1 and not applied itself. Read UW-51(a)(2) and (3) and you have an example of "partial" application of Sect.V.
Coming to PT procedure, read Appx. 8 Art 8-1(c) and the correspondent Sect.V Art.T-621.2. These two examples of the many clarifies what I meant for "jerarky" (sorry: correct word is "hierarchy").
The requiremnt of the demonstration to the AI (and consequently re-demonstration, when he has doubt of its effectiveness) is stated in Sect.V Art T-150 which is called by Appx.6 Art.8-1(c).
Mauro

Dear all,

As a Gonzaga said:

NDE examination is responsibility of the manufacturer. The manufacturer may subcontract services by an appointment to qualified personnel whose qualification has been verified by the manufacturer to be in accordance with the requirements of the Code. The NDE procedure shall be qualified.

NDE procedure have to accepted by Manufacturer and demostrate to AI.