Hello!

SA 105 cannot be used as a material for tube sheets for HE's as mentioned in the scope.

Are there any restrictions related to materials/product forms?

I really appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

Have a nice day.

Sharjeel

That's not true, it has already been discussed earlier here.


UG-14 effectively restricts cold drawn bar from a tubesheet use.

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Konrad Anikiel

Konrad,
What about this statement from spec. SA105 in sec. II, para 1.1. Scope: "Tubesheets and hollow cylindrical forgings for pressure vessel
shells are not included within the scope of this specification"?

regards,
malyl

Malyl,
It means exacly what it says, and there's nothing between the lines. A material manufacturer cannot certify a tubesheet as A105 material. But if you buy a blind A105 flange or other piece of flat forging, drill a bunch of holes, insert and expand your tubes- you are not breaching anything:
1. because you are not certifying your tubesheet as a material- now it's a component
2. because you are following all requirements of SecVIII-1, aren't you?

It's quite a common misunderstanding to try to demonstrate compliance of components of a pressurised equipment with ASTM wrought material specifications after they're taken to the production and processed. They only need to conform before releasing to the production (say, at the goods in inspection). In our example, it would be pointless to try to convince anyone that a piece of original A105 forging, after boring all the holes, expanding/welding all the tubes and welding the bundle to the shell of a heat exchanger still meets all requirements of ASTM A105. But it needs to be a true A105 forging when it arrives from the forge shop.

Hope that is clear

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Konrad Anikiel

its clear.
thanks,
malyl

In the BOM, what will be the specified material in this case?

Thanks

Bye

Where you enter material, you put your material: SA-105
Where you enter detail name, you put your detail name: Tubesheet
So with mass,
So with number of pieces

No bamboozling, just truth. The truth will set you free...

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Konrad Anikiel

In your BOM you mention SA 266/ SA 105 if you do not know whether your procurement guy procure A 105 blind cover and then drill it or buy A 266 forging.

If your tubesheet dimensions are not to B 16.5 flanges, you can specify SA 266 only.

Regards

Sorry Konrad, I don't follow you. The guy asked whether it was possible to have SA/105 tubesheet. The answer is no. It is written in Sect.II SA 105. And the Manufacturer cannot recertify SA 105 in ...e.g. SA 266.
Regards. MG

Mauro,
Yes, apparently you don't follow. Try to answer two questions:
1. At what stage the HX manufacturer recertifies the material, when he uses a forging to make a tubesheet?
2. What is the difference between a material manufacturer and a HX manufacturer? Which requirements apply to whom?

And, maybe a simplier example: a heat exchanger manufacturer buys tubes, say SA-249, and bends them to U-tubes. They don't follow SA-249 (or SA-1016) requirements for straightness, roundness and wall thickness in the area of the bend. Does it mean that they cannot bend tubes? Everyone does it! What now?

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Konrad Anikiel

Sorry, still not understanding. The smiling face means you are joking. I it was a serious argument I would answer that if the Code prohibited SA-249 tube material, also the bend made using such tube would be prohibited. It is not allowed to use SA-105 for t.s. and hollow forgings. And it is not allowed the Manufacturer of the p.v. to re-certify per UG-10, SA-105 to e.g SA-266.

OK, Mauro, you don't see any problem with Utubes, so let's go a little step further:
1. The Code allows certification of straight tubes to SA249- this applies to the material manufacturers.
2. The Code does not prohibit from bending- this applies to the heat exchanger manufacturers.

now what is the difference:
1. The Code allows certification of forged round plates to SA105- this applies to the material manufacturers.
2. The Code does not prohibit from drilling and welding- this applies to the heat exchanger manufacturers.

What I think we both agree is:
1. SA-249 effectively restricts from certifying U-tubes (they don't meet geometrical requirements of para 9, 10 and 13 of SA-1016) just as SA-105 restricts from certifying tubesheets.
2. SecII specifications are not the construction code- a HX manufacturer can process his material as long as he doesn't violate anything in his SecVIII-1 or any other applicable construction section. Drilling tubesheets and welding them is perfectly within the scope and is independent from the material.

Now what tells you that one can't make an A-105 tubesheet?
(no smileys this time, sorry)

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Konrad Anikiel

Now I catch you and agree you are digging very well the Code, mybe there is room for discussion. The point is that when I sent (in 1992) a MDR to the NB for a h.e. specifying t.s. in SA 105 they sent it back to me recommending to remove the nameplate. I was so lucky to have the MDR with double Specification and I could demonstrate the t.s. was SA 266 as well, revise the MDR and save the h.e. which was in Korea already.
Mauro

Ha! This is another problem. Even when you are sure that you're right, you still have to know who you can ague with. Sometimes it's a rude, ignorant guy and it's simply a waste of time to educate them, partcularily when you have some other solution in the sleeve. I can confirm from my experience: there's no point in explaining anything complicated to the NB- you will learn in the end that they have an unpublished policy not to change their mind. Politely said
Anyway, all the best for Monday!

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Konrad Anikiel

Hi Konrad, I promised a follow-up.
Further consideration is that material shall comply to Sect. II, in this case SA 105. If SA-105 does not allow this material for tubesheet then our t.s. is not in accordance with SA-105. I will collect other advices and let you know, but I believe the above will the point
Mauro