Hello Friends,

I am doing WPS for Corrosion Resistant Overlay of Incoloy 825 (UNS No. N08825) on CS Plate. Incoloy 825 is having 38 to 46 % Nickel. The nearest A No. for this chemistry as per Sec. IX is 9, which is having 15 to 37% Nickel. Also no F No. or SFA No. is specified for UNS No. N08825.

My question is can we use actual chemical composition of filler wire used for welding instead of A No. & F No. in WPS ? Section IX permits this in case of base metal for which P No. not assigned, bit it is silent in case of unassigned F No. & A No..

Am I Correct ?

Thanks in Advance.

ASME SEC IX lists P#45 under non ferrous category hence A number is not applicable. (refer QW 404.5)
F number shall be specified as per respective AWS classification of consumables (QW 432).

chemical analysis if requested shall be within the range as specified in WPS. in absence this you may specify chemical analysis as per the AWS classification of filler with a tolerance (for e.g. +/-10%) for taking dilution in to a/c.

Q: are you using any unassigned filler metal?

_________________
Raghuram

Dear Raghurambathula,

Thanks for Reply.

In our case A No. will not be applicable since Incoloy 825 is non-ferrous equivalent to SB-163 (UNS N08825), so I will use Actual chemical analysis of filler metal instead of A No. as per QW 404.5.

Now for Filler metal, I don't know the brand name or SFA No. of the filler wire. Only thing I know is that it is Dia. 1.1 mm Filler wire, which is having Chemical Analysis conforming to Incoloy 825 (UNS No. No8825). WI have also done overlay on CS Plate and it conforms to chemical analysis of Incoloy 825 (39% Nickel, 21 % Cr. etc.). The overlay is 3 mm and done by GMAW.

Now my only question is which SFA or AWS No. this Filler wire may be having ? I will have to mention that in WPS / PQR. Is there any SFA or AWS No. which can give Chemical Analysis conforming to Incoloy 825 ? It is already proven in Chemical Analysis of Corrosion Resistant Weld overlay. In absence of any matching SFA or AWS no., what to write in WPS / PQR ?

in absence AWS Classification the same filler used on PQR shall be used for WPS too
(refer QW 404.12)

UNS N08825 can be welded with the following consumables
SFA 5.11 E NiCrMo-3, E NiCrMo-10
SFA 5.14 ER NiCrMo-3, ER NiCrMo-10

_________________
Raghuram

Dear Raghurambathula,

Dia. 1.1 mm filler wire used in this welding was drawn from Dia. 5.5 mm wire rod of Alloy 825 material.

Now the problem is what to write in WPS / PQR about Filler metal ? Because if we write `Dia. 5.5 mm wire rod’ then it will be wrong. If we write `Dia. 1.1 mm Filler wire’ then it will be right, but no one will know from where it is to be procured. Because the company, which has manufactured the Dia. 5.5 mm wire rod and the company which has drawn it into Dia. 1.1 mm filler wire, both are different.

In this case can we write following text in WPS / PQR in place of Filler material details ?
`Dia. 5.5 mm Alloy 825 wire rod drawn to Dia. 1.1 mm Filler Rod’

Additionally we can write Alloy 825 Chemical Analysis Range in WPS, and actual chemical composition of Dia. 1.1 mm Filler wire found in lab testing.

Is this correct ?

Welding products are normally similar in chemical composition to the base metals with which they are used. However because of high arc currents and high puddle temperatures, the filler metals often contain small additions of alloying elements to deoxidize the weldment to prevent solidification and hot cracking.

In your case you need to specify the actual filler wire used (i.e. 1.1mm drawn from a bigger dia wire), I wonder even if you are using a raw wire without any AWS classification, there must be a mill certificate, in absence of this it is advisable carry out all chemical, mechanical, corrosion tests if any required on the filler and certify it.

You can specify filler wire dia as 1.1mm on WPS, and in PQR with note stating it is drawn from 5mm dia wire.

Note: This PQR you can’t use for future use or you can use only till that time this specific batch of filler wire exists. It is your responsibility to convince any TPI/client involved that you are using the filler which was actually used to qualify the PQR.

_________________
Raghuram

Dear Raghurambathula,

I don’t understand why the PQR can’t be used in Future. Please give specific reason. Is it because we are not putting brand name / SFA or AWS Specification of Filler wire in WPS/PQR ?

Now what I have come to know for the origin of this Filler wire is quite strange. Actually the person who procured the Filler metal, is a director of the company, and he does not want to disclose the brand name of Original Wire Rod of Dia. 5.5 mm as a part of trade secret. He informed me that he has procured the wire rod from a Company A & drawn the same at a Company B. He has given me name of both companies, but did not give exact brand name.

Now the problem is I can mention only the manufacturing company-A (Wire Rod Dia. 5.5 mm) name on WPS/PQR, and not exact brand name. There is no point of using name of Company-B, which has just drawn the Wire rod into Dia. 1.1 mm wire.

Even if he gives me the brand name of the Dia. 5.5 mm Wire Rod, then also how can I write it on WPS/PQR, because actually he has drawn the same to Dia. 1.1 mm wire, which is not having any brand name.

Can you give me any suggestion how to deal with this situation ?

The second option is to find out the AWS or SFA specification for chemical composition of Alloy 825 (UNS N08825). I tried very much, but perhaps there is no AWS or SFA Specification for the composition (Nickel 38 to 46%, Cr. 19.5 to 23.5%, Moly 2.5 to 3.5%, Ti 0.6 to 1.2%). If you know the AWS or SFA No. for the same, then please let me know.

This may be the reason for that person to keep it secret, because he told me that he has ordered the wire rod having such specification specially.

I have tested the Corrosion Resistant Overlay Test piece successfully in all respect for Side bend, Chemical Analysis and DP Test. Only problem is how to write WPS/PQR in absence of proper AWS/SFA specification or brand name ?