Unqualified source material can be used for ASME III, if a materail organization is not a certificate holder.
Also please educate me that whether an N Stamp holder can qualify a materail organization directly like subcontractor or not.

Rizy,
An N-Type Certificate holder or an ASME Accredited MO (QSC holder) may audit vendors of Material and qualify them as "Approved supplier of Material".
Consequently the vedor may manufacturer, certify and supply Material with CMTR in accordance with NCA-3860.
This vendor may not qualify other MO.

The details are described in NCa-3840.

This is a tricky subject. I strongly recommend the N-type cert holder to consult his ANI / ANIS for review and acceptance, prior to purchasing.

DK

rizy 951,

Do you or your company has an N Type Certificate? If you do, then you QA Manual already set up how you can procure ASME Code material from your vendor, in other words, your company has a listing of vendor that has been audited and been including on your AVL.

See also NCA-4134.7 (e) and the Dr. prescribed NCA-3800

NCA-3800 is a very tricky and interesting subarticle. In our organization, we have read and debated at least 10 times so far.

Your first statement looks confusing to me -"Unqualified source material can be used for ASME III, if a materail organization is not a certificate holder."

Any MO (be it QSC holder or Qualified MO or N Certificate Holder with MO Scope) can utilize unqualified source material.

You may be aware that there are two kinds of MO.
1. Accredite MO - (QSC Certificate Holder)
2. Qualified MO - Qualified either by QSC Holder or N - Stamp holder with MO Scope

An N-Certificate Holder with MO Scope in his Certificate can

1. Qualify a Material Organization (the qualified MO can prepared CMTR)
2. Approved supplier (the approved supplier can supply only source material and not material with CMTR)
3. utilize unqualified Source Material

But to perform any of the above activities, such activity need to included in the manual and demonstrated during ASME Survey.

Hope this will give you some clarification.

I fully agree to:


But I have some comments to the rest and revised to my taste:

Any MO (be it QSC holder or Qualified MO) or any N Certificate Holder (with or without MO Scope) may utilize unqualified source material, if so addressed in the QA system / quality System Program, and accepted by the auditing organization or ASME respectively.

Please note that the N-type cert holder without MO in the scope may use the USM only for his construction, and may not furnish the Material to other organisations.

There are two kinds of MO.
1. Accredite MO - (QSC Certificate Holder or N - Stamp holder with MO Scope )
2. Qualified MO - Qualified either by QSC Holder or N - type certificate holder

An N-Certificate Holder with or without MO Scope in his Certificate can
1. Qualify a Material Organization (the qualified MO can prepared CMTR)
2. Approved supplier (the approved supplier can supply only source material and not material with CMTR)
3. utilize unqualified Source Material

But to perform any of the above activities, such activity need to included in the manual and demonstrated during ASME Survey.

Hope this will give you some clarification.

But, Dr.Koelbl, I have a basic question.

Can a N Certificate Holder without the MO scope, prepare CMTR for the materials for his own use in construction of Components.

If yes, please give the reference from NCA. I think N Certificate Holder without the MO scope cannot prepare a CMTR even for the materials for his own use.

The reference is NCA-3800, 3840, 3860, all over the places. The question is not where is it permitted, but where is is prohibited. Now can you please give me the reference where the utilisation of USM is prohibited when MO is not in the scope of the Certificate?

What the N-Certificate holder can NOT do is SUPPLY of material, when this is not referenced in his scope.
But using the material in his own fabrication is not prohibited. right?

DK

Can a N Certificate Holder without the MO scope, prepare CMTR for the materials for his own use in construction of Components.

suriyanaranan,

The answer is No. It is outside the scope of your Certificate of Authorization.

leem

Leem,

Sorry, but I disagree with you.

An N Certificate Holder MAY utilize USM and issue a CMTR for his own fabricaation.
He may not furnish Material to other parties, but for his own use, no problem.

DK

Leem,

Sorry, but I disagree with you.

An N Certificate Holder MAY utilize USM and issue a CMTR for his own fabricaation.
He may not furnish Material to other parties, but for his own use, no problem.

DK,
This is a gray area and treading the unchartered territory. If he is my client my advice will be "Don't do it". It's like fox guarding a hen house. Again it's OK to disagree.

Please see NCA-3855.5.

leem

Leem,

Nice discussion indeed!
One of the ASME teamleaders used to say:
Arguing with the Inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. You suddenly realize that the pig enjoys it.

Best greetings
DK

I agree with leem.

N Certificate Holder without the MO Scope cannot prepare CMTR. But he has the responsibility to review the CMTR for materials used by him (Refer NCA-3520 - L).

If you introspect the Subsection NCA, NCA-4000 do not cover all the elements of NCA-3800.

Without the NCA-3800 program, he cannot manufacture (like performing product conversion and material heat treatment) and supply materials.

Arguing with the Inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. You suddenly realize that the pig enjoys it.

Best greetings
DK

DK,

Nice methaphor. Have a nice weekend.

leem