hello everyone:
I want to ask some questions about the welding materials which used in "U"stamp vessels:
UG-9 says: welding materials used for production shall comply with the requirements of the Division, those of Sec IX, and the applicable qualified welding procedure specification, and when the welding material s comply with one of the specificateion in section II, part C, the marking or tagging of the material, containers, or packages as required by the applicable section II...may be accecpted for identificateion in lieu of a certified test report or certificates of compliance.
so is that means we can use the material not including in ASME section II part C?
if yes, do we need the the certified test reports or certificates? and how can I judge it accecptable or not?
Thanks!

JWang,

Materials used for ASME Code stamp vessel must comply with the requirement of ASME Code Section II Part A, B, and C.

See Interpretation VIII-1-92-149 and VIII-1-83-343

leem817

Hi JWang,

I don’t agree to the statement of leem17.

It is acceptable to use welding materials other than those of ASME IIC.
Take this filler metal and make a procedure qualification acc. to ASME IX. If this qualification meets all requirements of ASME IX you can use this consumable. But this filler have to be traceable to the PQR e.g. by marking with the brand name. You don’t need a certified test report or certificate.

Please read UG-9 to the end:

But please take into consideration such a filler metal has no AWS-No. and F-No. except that deposited weld metal made using a bare rod not covered by an SFA Specification but which conforms to an analysis listed in QW-442 shall be considered to be classified as F-No. 6. (Note 1 of QW-433).
For filler metals without F-No. you have to had a separate PQR and WPQ which qualifies only for this filler metal (brand name).

_________________
Kind regards,
Juergen Fleischfresser

I disagree with Juergen statement.

See UG-4 (d) which states " Materials other than those allowed by this Division may not be used, unless data thereon are submitted to and approved by the Boiler and Pressure Vessel Committes in accordance with Appendix 5 in Section II, Part D.

From the Mandatory Appendix 5 Section II Part D states " It is the policy of the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Committee to adopt for inclusion in Section II only such specifications as have been adopted by the ASTM, AWS, and by other recognized national or international standards.

leem817

Hi,

Unfortunately I can’t agree with the statement of leem817 again.

There are some essential rules for using the code:
Read each paragraph von the beginning to the end.
Use reference codes only if there is a reference in the design code.


The above paragraph referenced to UG-9 (Welding Materials). And this paragraph allows the use of filler metal other than those of ASME IIC (see my above statement). In this paragraph is no reference to ASME IID.

MANDATORY APPENDIX 5 of ASME IID is the guideline on the approval of new materials under the ASME boiler and pressure vessel code. But you don’t need the approval for filler metal (see above).

In addition here an example from the real world:
If only welding materials according to ASME IIC are permitted, SAW-welding of austenitic steel would be not allowed. Because there is no SFA-Specification for fluxes for this case (as available for carbon (SFA-5.17) and low alloy steels (SFA-5.23). Believe me that would be a disaster. On hundred of pressure vessel around the world would removed the name plate with the stamp and manufacturer and AIA wouid have a lot of troubel.

And finally you now what ASME stand for?
Always
Sometime
May be
Except

Good luck

_________________
Kind regards,
Juergen Fleischfresser

Juergen,

It is the policy of the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Committee to adopt for inclusion in Section II only such specification as have been adopted by ASTM, AWS and by other recognized nationa or international organization.

Read the word, do the word.

leem817

Hi,

unfortunately I disagree again with leem817 statement..

The above sentence is applicable only when Sections II shall used.

The reference codes (ASME IX, ASME V, ASME II) are not stand-alone codes. Therefore use these sections only if you get a reference from the design code. In the design code go from the general paragraph to referenced specific paragraphs.

Here again:
“UG-4 GENERAL
(a) Material subject to stress due to pressure shall conform to one of the specifications given in Section II, Part
D, Subpart 1, Tables 1A, 1B, and 3, including all applicable notes in the tables, and shall be limited to those that are permitted in the applicable Part of Subsection C, except as otherwise permitted in UG-9, UG-10, UG-11, UG-15, Part UCS, and the Mandatory Appendices. Material may be identified as meeting more than one material specification and/or grade provided the material meets all requirements of the identified material specification(s) and/or grade(s) [see UG-23(a)].”

The referenced paragraphs with the exceptions as mentioned in UG-4 are:

UG-9 WELDING MATERIALS
UG-10 MATERIAL IDENTIFIED WITH OR PRODUCED TO A SPECIFICATION NOT PERMITTED BY THIS DIVISION, AND MATERIAL NOT FULLY IDENTIFIED
UG-11 PREFABRICATED OR PREFORMED PRESSURE PARTS
UG-15 PRODUCT SPECIFICATION

That means UG-9 is the applicable paragraph for welding materials:

"UG-9 WELDING MATERIALS
Welding materials used for production shall comply with the requirements of this Division, those of Section IX, and the applicable qualified welding procedure specification.
When the welding materials comply with one of the specifications in Section II, Part C, the marking or tagging of the material, containers, or packages as required by the applicable Section II specification may be accepted for identification in lieu of a Certified Test Report or a Certificate of Compliance.
When the welding materials do not comply with one of the specifications of Section II, the marking or tagging shall be identifiable with the welding materials set forth in the welding procedure specification, and may be accepted in lieu of a Certified Test Report or a Certificate of Compliance."

UG-9 gives you two options:
(1) welding materials acc. to ASME IIC
(2) welding materials not in compliance with ASME IIC.

As stated in UG-9 both options are in compliance with the code provided that the procedure qualification meets the requirements of ASME IX.

_________________
Kind regards,
Juergen Fleischfresser